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Talk:Sullivan
Improvements needed for this page Images * A screenshot of Sullivan's corpse The "meatball beat" As mentioned in the Audio Diary: Artist's Feud. I wanted to note what this phrase probably means, but I didn't think it would fit in the article. *'meatball' {n.}, {slang} A dull, boring, slow-witted, or uninteresting person. http://www.english-slang.com/eng/american/i_m/5157-meatball *'beat' {n}, {slang} Geographical area of patrol assignment (as in "beat cop" http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=beat%20cop) ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 15:00, May 27, 2011 (UTC) Identity of Sullivan's Corpse The corpse of a "Ducky" splicer with red and white color scheme (which a little sister can harvest) in Neptune's Bounty is believed to be Sullivan's corpse since it contains one of his audio diaries. But there are two things that suggest otherwise: *Sullivan supposedly commited suicide, but the position of his corpse and the numerous bullet holes ridden around it suggest he was gunned down. *The audio diary inside the corpse is a note for someone else. Due to these facts, the most likely explanation is that the corpse in question belongs to one of Sullivan's goons, not Sullivan himself. It is also likely that Sullivan's corpse is not present in the game at all, like the case of Pierre Gobbi. Plazmidz (talk) 20:08, November 21, 2012 (UTC)Plazmidz First, it must be noted that Sullivan only committed suicide in the novel BioShock: Rapture, which is not considered canon. Levine consulted on it, but the author wrote what he thought would be dramatic. Second, as has been stated before, Sullivan could have been walking the audio diary to the desk of the person it was intended for when he was suddenly ambushed. There is no way to definitively say it's not him or is. Unownshipper (talk) 23:07, November 21, 2012 (UTC) :As a follow up, the same can be said about Pablo Navarro. We all assume that his body was the one found under the stairs in Hepaestus because of the audio diary found on him even though it's clearly a message designated for someone else. :Unownshipper (talk) 07:14, November 22, 2012 (UTC) :Unownshipper summed it up pretty well: the novel isn't canon and is frequently contradicted by the games, and so cannot be used as a reference. Additionally, Sullivan isn't the only corpse that got identified due to the Audio Diary he was carrying: Diane McClintock and Yi Suchong are some of the most obvious examples, as are Anna Culpepper and Mark Meltzer even though it's not explicitly said so. In Sullivan's case it's a little hazier, but in every other case an Audio Diary on a corpse gave an indication on the corpse's identity, so it's likely the Waders body is Sullivan. --Willbachbakal (talk) 23:44, November 22, 2012 (UTC) :I think as both Unownershipper and Willbachbakal mentioned, its no telling if that body is or isn't his, but because most of these corpses do carry Audio Diaries to identify them, its close to plauseable. It possible that some of the development crew adding the Audio Diaries on corpses wanted to imply who those corpses are, and were concerned more on the closest tracks key to the game's side objectives, that they didn't pay close attention to how ambiguous the tracks seem to imply about the corpses. Still, unless a developer explains it, :this is more likely Sullivan. Evans0305 (talk) 22:28, November 29, 2012 (UTC) : :I really doubt this is Sullivan. The audio-diary in question takes place prior to one found underneath Fontaine Fisheries, where Sullivan is interrogating Timmy H. It's more than likely that this corpse is actually the intended recipient of the diary. Drsalvador (talk) 15:30, April 6, 2013 (UTC) Mentioned -- that Sullivan handed in badge after Ryans 'death penalty' declaration Now that I think of it that 'one law' thing (smugglers get the death penalty) looks more and more contrived just for the plot (why not just send them to jail/prison/permanent exile at Persephone like all the other criminals ???) Ayn Rand didnt believe in a death penalty (but did in having designated police authorities) , so why have Ryans somewhat looser restrictions (no police and supposedly 'no laws') for his Objectivism have at the same time a death penalty for just one crime ??? Smuggling DID imperil the City from the Surface and could be considered Treason, but why not just lock them up like all the others? Someone decided 'lets have people strung up in public places to prove Ryan is a tyrant' and came up with all that other stuff to frame that idea with. Funny thing is in Apollo Square a body has sign "Gene Traitor" on it - that doesnt sound like anything Ryan would have to do with - nothing to do with Smuggling(Treason) which the 'one law' had the death penalty. Yet there is no further explanation/elaboration thus is implied "Ryan did it"... Testxyz 15:48, August 20, 2013 (UTC) This is why I dislike BioShock:Rapture I know we only have his audio diaries to go on, but this just doesn't sound like Sullivan or how he talks. "She had the cutest little red and black blanket." CUTEST...!?! "Owe you that, I guess, Great Man...Bye bye, Great Man!" This is too heavy-handed. "A little drinky, a little bye bye." This is tripe. I respect the difficulty the author had to undertake to try and make a novel based around a game as complex and lofty as BioShock, but this just seems so contrived. Sullivan committing suicide for his actions sounds reasonable but look at the mess it created for identifying the body. This is what happens when other people write characters that a previous author created. Unownshipper (talk) 16:16, November 1, 2013 (UTC) Sounds to me like he was supposed to be pretty drunk while he was recording that (an Audio diary would have got that out plainly). As far as Im concerned, the whole original Culpepper killing situation makes little sense (needed a better reason for Ryan to order her killed), so follow on by the novel author (who couldnt change much from the game 'facts') is just elaborating tripe to begin with. Testxyz (talk) 08:41, November 2, 2013 (UTC) Sullivan's Audio Diary Timeline This is an observation from the Novel talk page. The way that the page is laid out, it identifies Sullivan's corpse solely by the audio diary Picked Up Timmy H. found on the body. If this is true, Sullivan is introduced and killed off in the same level, Neptune's Bounty. This is common for people like J.S. Steinman, Julie Langford, Sander Cohen, and Anya Andersdotter. They are introduced in a level and the game makes it clear that they died in the same level (Cohen being by the player's choice). Their audio diaries also stop being found outside of their respective levels. However, Sullivan's audio diaries don't end in Neptune's Bounty. They appear later on in Fort Frolic and Olympus Heights, far from the supposed death location. For people like Andrew Ryan, Yi Suchong, and Mariska Lutz the game makes it clear that the people have died. Naturally, further audio diaries found in later levels are set at earlier dates. Given the ambiguity of Sullivan's corpse and that further diaries from later levels can be dated after the interrogation, it makes for a very muddled timeline from a narrative standpoint. Here is the timeline that the audio diaries suggest: Based on the timeline, it is inconsistent both for Sullivan to be introduced and killed off in the same level and for him to walk back from Olympus Heights to Neptune's Bounty carrying an audio diary that was meant to be delivered to someone else from his earlier days on the job. The Timmy H. interrogation must have taken place before killing Culpepper. The game suggests a more ambiguous ending which does not support the dramatic shootout amidst piles of contraband the corpse represents. UpgradeTech (talk) 19:53, January 30, 2016 (UTC) SO much of the subplots are vague. Add to the 'Sullivan Saga' also the involvement of Sander Cohen, who's feud with Culpepper sounds to be a sufficient motive and the loose implication that Cohen was pressuring Sullivan thru Ryan to take care of his grievance. We are later shown what Cohen was capable of, so that probably shouldnt be dismissed as a possibility - Ryan/Sullivan refusing to get involved (to the point of murder) in a spat between artists (even with Culpepper being a detractor of Ryans policies) and the Cohen having her killed, with Sullivan later just commenting on the result as he investigates. Even dates for her death are vague and with a murderous 'civil war' in progress, there was plenty of mayhem to account for alternate explanations. Is it possible that Culpepper was involved in the Jolene/Fontaine/Jack/WYK situation. That at least might give sufficient reason for Ryan ordering the 'hit', but the Sullivan verbage doesnt seem to connect with any of that. - Interesting in above table uses the word "permits" as to the actual application of the Death Penalty for 'Smuggling'. We never get much detail about how justice worked in Rapture, so its up in the air exactly how many people ever were subject to that penalty (even Fontaine the organizer/ringleader and thus the most likely recipient, himself evaded it). 20:59, January 30, 2016 (UTC) I'm terribly sorry for not responding earlier on the novel talk page, I have a bad tendency to forget what talk pages I contribute to... Regardless, I'd say you have proven me wrong here, I think I was focusing more on the fact that the diary was found on a corpse (thus confirming the identity of that said corpse), than the actual content of the diary. With this said, I'd agree that the corpse found in Neptune's Bounty isn't Sullivan. The corpse must have been a colleague of Sullivan, perhaps on his way to the interrogation, but was gunned down before. --Shacob (talk) 16:53, January 31, 2016 (UTC) Sullivan's Corpse.png Bio NP Upper Wharf Little Sister Harvesting a Coprse.png|''A Little Sister harvests what may be Sullivan's body.'']]